Curse

Str0b0 · May 03, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

That's not at all the case. Try running the suggested spirits and see. You can destroy opposition in protracted battles. I've done this and it's worked for me. Then again I always adjust my builds to my style of play which is very meticulous and sometimes slow. I have no problems making this work. If you do then maybe I can help you figure out any timing or energy management problems you seem to be encountering.

Manic Smile · May 03, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havelock

I don't have a clue what you are trying to say.

as a MM(prenerf) you sac life...if you are not /mo or /rng then you will be depending on your monks in order keep your spells going without dieing. This is what some felt made /mo better as apposed to the ability to keep VS up always. Now there is no debate at all...or shouldn't be...there is no use for /ele or /mez in the current MM situation.

Manic Smile · May 03, 2006, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

That's not at all the case. Try running the suggested spirits and see. You can destroy opposition in protracted battles. I've done this and it's worked for me. Then again I always adjust my builds to my style of play which is very meticulous and sometimes slow. I have no problems making this work. If you do then maybe I can help you figure out any timing or energy management problems you seem to be encountering.

even so MM is pretty sad compared to what is was and there's no logic to how they nerfed VS...it's litterally useless now

yet the 55 monk is still running strong, offhand and all...wtf A.net?

I would like to hear Gaile say why they did it this way and ask her to reques VS be changed back.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · May 03, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Also they have new monk minions killer skills now...Ray of Judgement anyone?

TGgold · May 03, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

the 10 minnion cap makes a MM mearly useful instead of nessisary, where bodies are anyway.

THIS is why the MM was nerfed. Would you prefer it so, where there are corpses, it's basically "needed" to run a certain build. NO longer is the MM allmighty in PvE, they're simply another player on the team.

Melissa Is HOT · May 03, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

was it nerfed again... i can only get 5 minions on my new MM for some reason... every time i summon a 6th the 1st one dies... is this a bug or something? do i need to lvl more?

Dr Ripley · May 03, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

How many points do you have in Death? Sounds like you're a bit short of 16...

Melissa Is HOT · May 03, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

yeah im just lvl 10 and in the beginnning of factions so i only have 8... does that effect the number u can control?

lordsoulstrike · May 04, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

I myself was wondering where Animate Flesh Golem was since MM can be useful still but I have felt the effects too as well. Cantha is horrible on my pets. Usually none survive a battle group of 5.

UndeadRoadkill · May 04, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melissa Is HOT

yeah im just lvl 10 and in the beginnning of factions so i only have 8... does that effect the number u can control?

The max of ten is just assuming you have maxed out death magic, and are wearing the headgear and superior rune. You get to have two as a base, and you get one more for every two ranks in death magic.

Manic Smile · May 04, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

THIS is why the MM was nerfed. Would you prefer it so, where there are corpses, it's basically "needed" to run a certain build. NO longer is the MM allmighty in PvE, they're simply another player on the team.

READ MY POST

I said WHY WAS VS TOUCHED...not why did they cap the minnion numbers

and I think 10 is too low...

how about 15 or 20 total or perhaps 5 of each minnion type excepting the Golem of course

10 is just too low and VS almost breaks MM

TheLordOfBlah · May 04, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Harder to use minions as a meat shield... that was my first idea. The vamp horrors changed my mind, stealing over 30 health per hit. Keeps you alive with BoTM

Rieselle · May 04, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

The Minion change didnt hurt MM's nearly has much as the AOE change hurt Fire Elems... so be relieved :P

Also, for GW1 - only players, "Summon Bone Minions" now costs 15... you get an amazing amount of energy back with some points in Soul Reaping.

Although I dont like it much myself, I believe the VSacrifice nerf was due to ANet wanting to keep minions as a temporary, during the battle sort of thing. GofRenewal + VS allowed you to keep minions up pretty much permanently, which is significantly different from what you can do without those 2 skills.

As for my MM, I pretty much ditched all my minion heals, and diversified into death+blood. It's a bit of relief since keeping minions up was a pain. Now they're just fire and forget :P

Jeebus 07 · May 04, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

In responce to the question about Tyria only players who didnt buy factions, I'm not sure but can you not unlock the skills with the priets of Balthazar, I dont know as I own factions so just a thought.

Vargs · May 04, 2006, 04:25 AM // 04:25

I don't have Factions. I won't be getting Factions, as I don't care for most of the Factions additions. I dislike the fact that I am now gimped because the Factions players get bone golems, and am forced to spend money to be effective (which I will not do. I'll probably delete my MM, which, prior to the nerf, was my favorite character).

Havelock · May 04, 2006, 07:50 AM // 07:50

BTW: Does casting Bone Minions once count as one undead ally or as two?

Manic Smile · May 05, 2006, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Found out guys Heal Area X 2 and BotM can keep minnions alive indefinately as long as stuff dies every min or so.

Kai Nui · May 05, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28

So what's the point of Bone Minions now when Bone Horror is the same but at a higher level? I mean it's not like you'll be making mass amounts of minions... Also, Malign Intervention might actually be used for once?

Samueldg · May 05, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

the veritas nerf is kind of a drag.. the 10 limit also a big drag..

but having beat the game with my MM and only henchies I cant say they really did much to stop the MM..

I capped fleshgolem before the last mission ( read here where it was) on shiro I changed to curses since there wouldnt be a mass of mobs to sustain a max army..

generally though I ran as n/mo using only BOTM and HA for healing.. and constantly raized more fiends and minions..

with minions now costing 15 ene you end up making ene with a decent soulreaping and theyre nice blockers.. ( Id start making minions with a mix of fiends, by the time I was close to finishing a mission or quest id have all fiends and still be spammin creating more to counter the degen..)

veritas is all but useless now in pve.. in 12v12 Ill still use it during lulls but most often Im just using up corpses to keep other MMs from gathering an army..

Kobal · May 06, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

I agree that tweaks needed to be made in light of the new minions and the nature of cantha, but its not as if MMs were all conquering! In some areas - eg kryta with undead (and hence no useable corpses) or UW - it could be a hard build to play and use effectively, forcing a switch to an SS variant that i enjoy.

My MM wasnt some infantry grunt, i always saw her as a tactician - the master of positioning ur troops to "catch" charging enemies, for example, managing energy and corpse use. I play a N/Me, so i used a lot of interupts etc as support, so my minion count rarely got over about 15, but that was still sufficient to channel horde of enemies and diffuse knots of enemies. a cap of 10, esp when its now much harder to keep them alive between engagements with the death of VS, means that this kind of tactical play isnt really viable n e more.

Still, on saying this, i guess we have to roll with the punches and all that. I can get the same general effectiveness out of my character, with the use of wells etc - im always up for a challenge and learning new things, and ill be playing with my build for a few weeks i reckon - its just that its nowhere near as fun now, especially as i dont have factions and the new skills that this "fix" was implemented to balance! I dont like the idea of being forcefed Factions just so i can get my character to play as i like her to play, or being forced to switch to a Mo secondary to keep my health loss manageable. But maybe ill learn to cope with that like i did with the AI update ("AoE nerf") and my much maligned E/N!

Generally a thumbs down on this one tho. Anet, u used a hammer, not surgical scalpal that was needed!

Maybe dust off my ranger, and play with him for a while - before Anet get to barrage!